Kris Baker wrote:
> "veryrich" <vvvrrrmmm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1165549519.590421.82870@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Kris Baker wrote:
> >> (alt.true-crime added)
> >>
> >> "Dustbunny" <whognu@earthlinc.net> wrote in message
> >> news:bg3eh.7884$tM1.5102@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
> >> > I live in Portland and this story has been all over the local news
> >> > here --
> >> > obviously -- anyhoo, the Oregonian said that "official" maps issued by
> >> > the
> >> > OR Dept. of Transportation have a warning not to take that road in
> >> > winter.
> >> > They didn't know which map the Kims used though -- apparently Rand
> >> > McNally
> >> > maps don't have the same warning.
> >> >
> >> > Evelyn
> >>
> >> I've got Rand McNally right in front of me.
> >>
> >> The road *is* shown on the Oregon two-pager as a
> >> light gray line that means "Other roads". There's a
> >> note to go to Page 1 for more info on the symbols.
> >>
> >> If you go to Page 1:(actually it's about the 8th page in),
> >> it says:
> >> "Other roads (conditions vary - local inquiry suggested)."
> >>
> >> In other words, someone travelling in the dark who sees
> >> the road on the map, might just take it without
> >> investigating the entire scope of the road map.
> >>
> >> R-M also shows it as a scenic route. There's no warning
> >> about "closed in winter", only that it goes through the
> >> Wild Rogue Wilderness Area.
> >>
> >> I've been wondering how far they were past their
> >> turn-off to the good road (Hwy 42, I suspect), that made
> >> this pig-in-a-poke look like the best choice late at night.
> >> From the Glendale turnoff, it's about 60 miles north to
> >> the Hwy 42 turnoff.
> >>
> >> Kris
> >
> > Kris, I'm following this obliquely (I'm wildly busy with other stuff)
> > but on the website for the lodge they were going to stay in -- tu tum
> > something? -- there's a map that makes this road look both direct -- as
> > in straight across -- and unrestricted. Of course, the written
> > directions don't include it, but if I were looking at the Tu Tum map or
> > had looked at it, I'd think it was an okay road. veryrich
>
> Hi, stranger
>
> http://tututun.com/images/tututun_map.pdf - right?
>
> Oh. My. God.
>
> You're mostly right about it. If you look at it quickly OR if you printed
> the map on "color saving", you'd think that's the road to follow. It's
> not. That dull-blue color is the Rogue River, but the B&B site
> sure as hell makes it look like the road they ended up taking.
>
> We can see so many things wrong in hindsight; it's too bad we
> don't have that time machine Denzel and Val have in "Deja Vu".
>
> I wonder if they printed that out? If I were traveling in the dark,
> and referred to it...........
>
> Kris
>
> I saved that one to my hard drive, in case "we" need it later.

That's exactly the image I had in mind. If they missed the earlier
cutover, I could see one or both of them saying, gee, I remember seeing
a road on the Tututun map...

Thanks for saving it. veryrich

 
Kris Baker wrote:
>
> Oh. My. God.
>
> You're mostly right about it. If you look at it quickly OR if you printed
> the map on "color saving", you'd think that's the road to follow. It's
> not. That dull-blue color is the Rogue River, but the B&B site
> sure as hell makes it look like the road they ended up taking.

That's quite plausible. Some very intelligent people just aren't great
with maps, and that map isn't too great.

 
Kris Baker wrote:
> (alt.true-crime added)
>
> "Dustbunny" <whognu@earthlinc.net> wrote in message
> news:bg3eh.7884$tM1.5102@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
> > I live in Portland and this story has been all over the local news here --
> > obviously -- anyhoo, the Oregonian said that "official" maps issued by the
> > OR Dept. of Transportation have a warning not to take that road in winter.
> > They didn't know which map the Kims used though -- apparently Rand McNally
> > maps don't have the same warning.
> >
> > Evelyn
>
> I've got Rand McNally right in front of me.
>
> The road *is* shown on the Oregon two-pager as a
> light gray line that means "Other roads". There's a
> note to go to Page 1 for more info on the symbols.
>
> If you go to Page 1:(actually it's about the 8th page in),
> it says:
> "Other roads (conditions vary - local inquiry suggested)."
>
> In other words, someone travelling in the dark who sees
> the road on the map, might just take it without
> investigating the entire scope of the road map.
>
> R-M also shows it as a scenic route. There's no warning
> about "closed in winter", only that it goes through the
> Wild Rogue Wilderness Area.
>
> I've been wondering how far they were past their
> turn-off to the good road (Hwy 42, I suspect), that made
> this pig-in-a-poke look like the best choice late at night.
> From the Glendale turnoff, it's about 60 miles north to
> the Hwy 42 turnoff.
>
> Kris

Hmmm, Kris, good detective work. Yeah, when they have some sort of
asterisk with the explanation on another page (or even in small print
at tthe bottom of the page) that isn't something people always see.

But remember, the guy that rescued them said that logging road is wider
than Bear Gulch. So it probably didn't look that puny, at least when
they first got on it.

 
Kris Baker wrote:
> "veryrich" <vvvrrrmmm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1165549519.590421.82870@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Kris Baker wrote:
> >> (alt.true-crime added)
> >>
> >> "Dustbunny" <whognu@earthlinc.net> wrote in message
> >> news:bg3eh.7884$tM1.5102@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
> >> > I live in Portland and this story has been all over the local news
> >> > here --
> >> > obviously -- anyhoo, the Oregonian said that "official" maps issued by
> >> > the
> >> > OR Dept. of Transportation have a warning not to take that road in
> >> > winter.
> >> > They didn't know which map the Kims used though -- apparently Rand
> >> > McNally
> >> > maps don't have the same warning.
> >> >
> >> > Evelyn
> >>
> >> I've got Rand McNally right in front of me.
> >>
> >> The road *is* shown on the Oregon two-pager as a
> >> light gray line that means "Other roads". There's a
> >> note to go to Page 1 for more info on the symbols.
> >>
> >> If you go to Page 1:(actually it's about the 8th page in),
> >> it says:
> >> "Other roads (conditions vary - local inquiry suggested)."
> >>
> >> In other words, someone travelling in the dark who sees
> >> the road on the map, might just take it without
> >> investigating the entire scope of the road map.
> >>
> >> R-M also shows it as a scenic route. There's no warning
> >> about "closed in winter", only that it goes through the
> >> Wild Rogue Wilderness Area.
> >>
> >> I've been wondering how far they were past their
> >> turn-off to the good road (Hwy 42, I suspect), that made
> >> this pig-in-a-poke look like the best choice late at night.
> >> From the Glendale turnoff, it's about 60 miles north to
> >> the Hwy 42 turnoff.
> >>
> >> Kris
> >
> > Kris, I'm following this obliquely (I'm wildly busy with other stuff)
> > but on the website for the lodge they were going to stay in -- tu tum
> > something? -- there's a map that makes this road look both direct -- as
> > in straight across -- and unrestricted. Of course, the written
> > directions don't include it, but if I were looking at the Tu Tum map or
> > had looked at it, I'd think it was an okay road. veryrich
>
> Hi, stranger
>
> http://tututun.com/images/tututun_map.pdf - right?
>
> Oh. My. God.
>
> You're mostly right about it. If you look at it quickly OR if you printed
> the map on "color saving", you'd think that's the road to follow. It's
> not. That dull-blue color is the Rogue River, but the B&B site
> sure as hell makes it look like the road they ended up taking.
>
> We can see so many things wrong in hindsight; it's too bad we
> don't have that time machine Denzel and Val have in "Deja Vu".
>
> I wonder if they printed that out? If I were traveling in the dark,
> and referred to it...........
>
> Kris
>
> I saved that one to my hard drive, in case "we" need it later.

The only prob with this is they have more info and Kati is saying they
knew they took a wrong road.

 
veryrich wrote:
> Kris Baker wrote:
> > "veryrich" <vvvrrrmmm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1165549519.590421.82870@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > Kris Baker wrote:
> > >> (alt.true-crime added)
> > >>
> > >> "Dustbunny" <whognu@earthlinc.net> wrote in message
> > >> news:bg3eh.7884$tM1.5102@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
> > >> > I live in Portland and this story has been all over the local news
> > >> > here --
> > >> > obviously -- anyhoo, the Oregonian said that "official" maps issued by
> > >> > the
> > >> > OR Dept. of Transportation have a warning not to take that road in
> > >> > winter.
> > >> > They didn't know which map the Kims used though -- apparently Rand
> > >> > McNally
> > >> > maps don't have the same warning.
> > >> >
> > >> > Evelyn
> > >>
> > >> I've got Rand McNally right in front of me.
> > >>
> > >> The road *is* shown on the Oregon two-pager as a
> > >> light gray line that means "Other roads". There's a
> > >> note to go to Page 1 for more info on the symbols.
> > >>
> > >> If you go to Page 1:(actually it's about the 8th page in),
> > >> it says:
> > >> "Other roads (conditions vary - local inquiry suggested)."
> > >>
> > >> In other words, someone travelling in the dark who sees
> > >> the road on the map, might just take it without
> > >> investigating the entire scope of the road map.
> > >>
> > >> R-M also shows it as a scenic route. There's no warning
> > >> about "closed in winter", only that it goes through the
> > >> Wild Rogue Wilderness Area.
> > >>
> > >> I've been wondering how far they were past their
> > >> turn-off to the good road (Hwy 42, I suspect), that made
> > >> this pig-in-a-poke look like the best choice late at night.
> > >> From the Glendale turnoff, it's about 60 miles north to
> > >> the Hwy 42 turnoff.
> > >>
> > >> Kris
> > >
> > > Kris, I'm following this obliquely (I'm wildly busy with other stuff)
> > > but on the website for the lodge they were going to stay in -- tu tum
> > > something? -- there's a map that makes this road look both direct -- as
> > > in straight across -- and unrestricted. Of course, the written
> > > directions don't include it, but if I were looking at the Tu Tum map or
> > > had looked at it, I'd think it was an okay road. veryrich
> >
> > Hi, stranger
> >
> > http://tututun.com/images/tututun_map.pdf - right?
> >
> > Oh. My. God.
> >
> > You're mostly right about it. If you look at it quickly OR if you printed
> > the map on "color saving", you'd think that's the road to follow. It's
> > not. That dull-blue color is the Rogue River, but the B&B site
> > sure as hell makes it look like the road they ended up taking.
> >
> > We can see so many things wrong in hindsight; it's too bad we
> > don't have that time machine Denzel and Val have in "Deja Vu".
> >
> > I wonder if they printed that out? If I were traveling in the dark,
> > and referred to it...........
> >
> > Kris
> >
> > I saved that one to my hard drive, in case "we" need it later.
>
> That's exactly the image I had in mind. If they missed the earlier
> cutover, I could see one or both of them saying, gee, I remember seeing
> a road on the Tututun map...
>
> Thanks for saving it. veryrich

Not that it sn't a very good theory, but they had another map because
Kati says that James took off thinking some little town was 4 miles
away (something like Creeley) but it was really 15 miles away. But
Kati told someone they both pored over the map and were convnced it
was four miles away and that was where he was headed.

Although the tututun map fills in some things I didn't understand. The
lodge is right on the Rogue River and Bear Gulch being so close to it
on the lodge map is what probably made him go toward the river,
thinking there was civilization and the lodge, too.

 
"LidsvilleNine" <LidsvilleNine@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1165551514.667729.72740@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Kris Baker wrote:
>>
>> Oh. My. God.
>>
>> You're mostly right about it. If you look at it quickly OR if you
>> printed
>> the map on "color saving", you'd think that's the road to follow. It's
>> not. That dull-blue color is the Rogue River, but the B&B site
>> sure as hell makes it look like the road they ended up taking.
>
> That's quite plausible. Some very intelligent people just aren't great
> with maps, and that map isn't too great.

So we now have two maps that could have easily led them astray.
Sheesh. I wonder if they missed the warning signs, because
of the heavy snow?

Kris

 
"camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1165551723.163427.93920@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Kris Baker wrote:
>> (alt.true-crime added)
>>
>> "Dustbunny" <whognu@earthlinc.net> wrote in message
>> news:bg3eh.7884$tM1.5102@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
>> > I live in Portland and this story has been all over the local news
>> > here --
>> > obviously -- anyhoo, the Oregonian said that "official" maps issued by
>> > the
>> > OR Dept. of Transportation have a warning not to take that road in
>> > winter.
>> > They didn't know which map the Kims used though -- apparently Rand
>> > McNally
>> > maps don't have the same warning.
>> >
>> > Evelyn
>>
>> I've got Rand McNally right in front of me.
>>
>> The road *is* shown on the Oregon two-pager as a
>> light gray line that means "Other roads". There's a
>> note to go to Page 1 for more info on the symbols.
>>
>> If you go to Page 1:(actually it's about the 8th page in),
>> it says:
>> "Other roads (conditions vary - local inquiry suggested)."
>>
>> In other words, someone travelling in the dark who sees
>> the road on the map, might just take it without
>> investigating the entire scope of the road map.
>>
>> R-M also shows it as a scenic route. There's no warning
>> about "closed in winter", only that it goes through the
>> Wild Rogue Wilderness Area.
>>
>> I've been wondering how far they were past their
>> turn-off to the good road (Hwy 42, I suspect), that made
>> this pig-in-a-poke look like the best choice late at night.
>> From the Glendale turnoff, it's about 60 miles north to
>> the Hwy 42 turnoff.
>>
>> Kris
>
> Hmmm, Kris, good detective work. Yeah, when they have some sort of
> asterisk with the explanation on another page (or even in small print
> at tthe bottom of the page) that isn't something people always see.
>
> But remember, the guy that rescued them said that logging road is wider
> than Bear Gulch. So it probably didn't look that puny, at least when
> they first got on it.

The dead-end road they turned onto after travelling several miles,
was the road that was wider.

NF-23 is a paved one-laner, with gravel at the very top (highest
part), according to what I can find and that's apparently the one
I'm seeing on the map.

Kris

 
"camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1165552293.373311.153080@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Kris Baker wrote:
>> "veryrich" <vvvrrrmmm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1165549519.590421.82870@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Kris Baker wrote:
>> >> (alt.true-crime added)
>> >>
>> >> "Dustbunny" <whognu@earthlinc.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:bg3eh.7884$tM1.5102@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
>> >> > I live in Portland and this story has been all over the local news
>> >> > here --
>> >> > obviously -- anyhoo, the Oregonian said that "official" maps issued
>> >> > by
>> >> > the
>> >> > OR Dept. of Transportation have a warning not to take that road in
>> >> > winter.
>> >> > They didn't know which map the Kims used though -- apparently Rand
>> >> > McNally
>> >> > maps don't have the same warning.
>> >> >
>> >> > Evelyn
>> >>
>> >> I've got Rand McNally right in front of me.
>> >>
>> >> The road *is* shown on the Oregon two-pager as a
>> >> light gray line that means "Other roads". There's a
>> >> note to go to Page 1 for more info on the symbols.
>> >>
>> >> If you go to Page 1:(actually it's about the 8th page in),
>> >> it says:
>> >> "Other roads (conditions vary - local inquiry suggested)."
>> >>
>> >> In other words, someone travelling in the dark who sees
>> >> the road on the map, might just take it without
>> >> investigating the entire scope of the road map.
>> >>
>> >> R-M also shows it as a scenic route. There's no warning
>> >> about "closed in winter", only that it goes through the
>> >> Wild Rogue Wilderness Area.
>> >>
>> >> I've been wondering how far they were past their
>> >> turn-off to the good road (Hwy 42, I suspect), that made
>> >> this pig-in-a-poke look like the best choice late at night.
>> >> From the Glendale turnoff, it's about 60 miles north to
>> >> the Hwy 42 turnoff.
>> >>
>> >> Kris
>> >
>> > Kris, I'm following this obliquely (I'm wildly busy with other stuff)
>> > but on the website for the lodge they were going to stay in -- tu tum
>> > something? -- there's a map that makes this road look both direct -- as
>> > in straight across -- and unrestricted. Of course, the written
>> > directions don't include it, but if I were looking at the Tu Tum map or
>> > had looked at it, I'd think it was an okay road. veryrich
>>
>> Hi, stranger
>>
>> http://tututun.com/images/tututun_map.pdf - right?
>>
>> Oh. My. God.
>>
>> You're mostly right about it. If you look at it quickly OR if you
>> printed
>> the map on "color saving", you'd think that's the road to follow. It's
>> not. That dull-blue color is the Rogue River, but the B&B site
>> sure as hell makes it look like the road they ended up taking.
>>
>> We can see so many things wrong in hindsight; it's too bad we
>> don't have that time machine Denzel and Val have in "Deja Vu".
>>
>> I wonder if they printed that out? If I were traveling in the dark,
>> and referred to it...........
>>
>> Kris
>>
>> I saved that one to my hard drive, in case "we" need it later.
>
> The only prob with this is they have more info and Kati is saying they
> knew they took a wrong road.

Oh, definitely. But if they saw it as a recommended possibility.....

Kris
>

 
"camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1165552850.118896.91320@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>
> veryrich wrote:
>> Kris Baker wrote:
>> > "veryrich" <vvvrrrmmm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:1165549519.590421.82870@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> > >
>> > > Kris Baker wrote:
>> > >> (alt.true-crime added)
>> > >>
>> > >> "Dustbunny" <whognu@earthlinc.net> wrote in message
>> > >> news:bg3eh.7884$tM1.5102@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
>> > >> > I live in Portland and this story has been all over the local news
>> > >> > here --
>> > >> > obviously -- anyhoo, the Oregonian said that "official" maps
>> > >> > issued by
>> > >> > the
>> > >> > OR Dept. of Transportation have a warning not to take that road in
>> > >> > winter.
>> > >> > They didn't know which map the Kims used though -- apparently Rand
>> > >> > McNally
>> > >> > maps don't have the same warning.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Evelyn
>> > >>
>> > >> I've got Rand McNally right in front of me.
>> > >>
>> > >> The road *is* shown on the Oregon two-pager as a
>> > >> light gray line that means "Other roads". There's a
>> > >> note to go to Page 1 for more info on the symbols.
>> > >>
>> > >> If you go to Page 1:(actually it's about the 8th page in),
>> > >> it says:
>> > >> "Other roads (conditions vary - local inquiry suggested)."
>> > >>
>> > >> In other words, someone travelling in the dark who sees
>> > >> the road on the map, might just take it without
>> > >> investigating the entire scope of the road map.
>> > >>
>> > >> R-M also shows it as a scenic route. There's no warning
>> > >> about "closed in winter", only that it goes through the
>> > >> Wild Rogue Wilderness Area.
>> > >>
>> > >> I've been wondering how far they were past their
>> > >> turn-off to the good road (Hwy 42, I suspect), that made
>> > >> this pig-in-a-poke look like the best choice late at night.
>> > >> From the Glendale turnoff, it's about 60 miles north to
>> > >> the Hwy 42 turnoff.
>> > >>
>> > >> Kris
>> > >
>> > > Kris, I'm following this obliquely (I'm wildly busy with other stuff)
>> > > but on the website for the lodge they were going to stay in -- tu
>> > > tum
>> > > something? -- there's a map that makes this road look both direct --
>> > > as
>> > > in straight across -- and unrestricted. Of course, the written
>> > > directions don't include it, but if I were looking at the Tu Tum map
>> > > or
>> > > had looked at it, I'd think it was an okay road. veryrich
>> >
>> > Hi, stranger
>> >
>> > http://tututun.com/images/tututun_map.pdf - right?
>> >
>> > Oh. My. God.
>> >
>> > You're mostly right about it. If you look at it quickly OR if you
>> > printed
>> > the map on "color saving", you'd think that's the road to follow.
>> > It's
>> > not. That dull-blue color is the Rogue River, but the B&B site
>> > sure as hell makes it look like the road they ended up taking.
>> >
>> > We can see so many things wrong in hindsight; it's too bad we
>> > don't have that time machine Denzel and Val have in "Deja Vu".
>> >
>> > I wonder if they printed that out? If I were traveling in the dark,
>> > and referred to it...........
>> >
>> > Kris
>> >
>> > I saved that one to my hard drive, in case "we" need it later.
>>
>> That's exactly the image I had in mind. If they missed the earlier
>> cutover, I could see one or both of them saying, gee, I remember seeing
>> a road on the Tututun map...
>>
>> Thanks for saving it. veryrich
>
> Not that it sn't a very good theory, but they had another map because
> Kati says that James took off thinking some little town was 4 miles
> away (something like Creeley) but it was really 15 miles away. But
> Kati told someone they both pored over the map and were convnced it
> was four miles away and that was where he was headed.
>
> Although the tututun map fills in some things I didn't understand. The
> lodge is right on the Rogue River and Bear Gulch being so close to it
> on the lodge map is what probably made him go toward the river,
> thinking there was civilization and the lodge, too.

The town he thought he was heading for, was Galice. But since he
wasn't where he thought he was, he didn't find the town. Galice is
north of NF-23 on a different road than they were stuck on, and
I think they thought they were still on 23.

What a mess.

Kris

 
Kris Baker wrote:
> "camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1165551723.163427.93920@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Kris Baker wrote:
> >> (alt.true-crime added)
> >>
> >> "Dustbunny" <whognu@earthlinc.net> wrote in message
> >> news:bg3eh.7884$tM1.5102@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
> >> > I live in Portland and this story has been all over the local news
> >> > here --
> >> > obviously -- anyhoo, the Oregonian said that "official" maps issued by
> >> > the
> >> > OR Dept. of Transportation have a warning not to take that road in
> >> > winter.
> >> > They didn't know which map the Kims used though -- apparently Rand
> >> > McNally
> >> > maps don't have the same warning.
> >> >
> >> > Evelyn
> >>
> >> I've got Rand McNally right in front of me.
> >>
> >> The road *is* shown on the Oregon two-pager as a
> >> light gray line that means "Other roads". There's a
> >> note to go to Page 1 for more info on the symbols.
> >>
> >> If you go to Page 1:(actually it's about the 8th page in),
> >> it says:
> >> "Other roads (conditions vary - local inquiry suggested)."
> >>
> >> In other words, someone travelling in the dark who sees
> >> the road on the map, might just take it without
> >> investigating the entire scope of the road map.
> >>
> >> R-M also shows it as a scenic route. There's no warning
> >> about "closed in winter", only that it goes through the
> >> Wild Rogue Wilderness Area.
> >>
> >> I've been wondering how far they were past their
> >> turn-off to the good road (Hwy 42, I suspect), that made
> >> this pig-in-a-poke look like the best choice late at night.
> >> From the Glendale turnoff, it's about 60 miles north to
> >> the Hwy 42 turnoff.
> >>
> >> Kris
> >
> > Hmmm, Kris, good detective work. Yeah, when they have some sort of
> > asterisk with the explanation on another page (or even in small print
> > at tthe bottom of the page) that isn't something people always see.
> >
> > But remember, the guy that rescued them said that logging road is wider
> > than Bear Gulch. So it probably didn't look that puny, at least when
> > they first got on it.
>
> The dead-end road they turned onto after travelling several miles,
> was the road that was wider.
>
> NF-23 is a paved one-laner, with gravel at the very top (highest
> part), according to what I can find and that's apparently the one
> I'm seeing on the map.
>
> Kris

Right, my mistake. I'm getting confused with all these roads. :-)

 
"camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1165554020.534000.71050@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
> Kris Baker wrote:
>> "camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:1165551723.163427.93920@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Kris Baker wrote:
>> >> (alt.true-crime added)
>> >>
>> >> "Dustbunny" <whognu@earthlinc.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:bg3eh.7884$tM1.5102@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
>> >> > I live in Portland and this story has been all over the local news
>> >> > here --
>> >> > obviously -- anyhoo, the Oregonian said that "official" maps issued
>> >> > by
>> >> > the
>> >> > OR Dept. of Transportation have a warning not to take that road in
>> >> > winter.
>> >> > They didn't know which map the Kims used though -- apparently Rand
>> >> > McNally
>> >> > maps don't have the same warning.
>> >> >
>> >> > Evelyn
>> >>
>> >> I've got Rand McNally right in front of me.
>> >>
>> >> The road *is* shown on the Oregon two-pager as a
>> >> light gray line that means "Other roads". There's a
>> >> note to go to Page 1 for more info on the symbols.
>> >>
>> >> If you go to Page 1:(actually it's about the 8th page in),
>> >> it says:
>> >> "Other roads (conditions vary - local inquiry suggested)."
>> >>
>> >> In other words, someone travelling in the dark who sees
>> >> the road on the map, might just take it without
>> >> investigating the entire scope of the road map.
>> >>
>> >> R-M also shows it as a scenic route. There's no warning
>> >> about "closed in winter", only that it goes through the
>> >> Wild Rogue Wilderness Area.
>> >>
>> >> I've been wondering how far they were past their
>> >> turn-off to the good road (Hwy 42, I suspect), that made
>> >> this pig-in-a-poke look like the best choice late at night.
>> >> From the Glendale turnoff, it's about 60 miles north to
>> >> the Hwy 42 turnoff.
>> >>
>> >> Kris
>> >
>> > Hmmm, Kris, good detective work. Yeah, when they have some sort of
>> > asterisk with the explanation on another page (or even in small print
>> > at tthe bottom of the page) that isn't something people always see.
>> >
>> > But remember, the guy that rescued them said that logging road is wider
>> > than Bear Gulch. So it probably didn't look that puny, at least when
>> > they first got on it.
>>
>> The dead-end road they turned onto after travelling several miles,
>> was the road that was wider.
>>
>> NF-23 is a paved one-laner, with gravel at the very top (highest
>> part), according to what I can find and that's apparently the one
>> I'm seeing on the map.
>>
>> Kris
>
> Right, my mistake. I'm getting confused with all these roads. :-)

I wish they'd just call them by the numbers, instead of the names.

Kris

 
Kris Baker wrote:
> "LidsvilleNine" <LidsvilleNine@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:1165551514.667729.72740@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Kris Baker wrote:
> >>
> >> Oh. My. God.
> >>
> >> You're mostly right about it. If you look at it quickly OR if you
> >> printed
> >> the map on "color saving", you'd think that's the road to follow. It's
> >> not. That dull-blue color is the Rogue River, but the B&B site
> >> sure as hell makes it look like the road they ended up taking.
> >
> > That's quite plausible. Some very intelligent people just aren't great
> > with maps, and that map isn't too great.
>
> So we now have two maps that could have easily led them astray.
> Sheesh. I wonder if they missed the warning signs, because
> of the heavy snow?
>
> Kris

No, they didn't. This is based on the same article I read. They got on
the road and then I guess fairly soon saw these warnings signs. She
says they saw warning signs and then it started snowing really hard.
Not sure of the actual step by step here.

They tried to turn around (which is how they got stuck). They had to
get out in the snow and get the car turned around, which they did do
and then they drove back a little ways in the direction they had come,
but then stopped when they hit a fork in the road thinking they could
be found there. They were running out of gas from all the maneuvers
trying to turn around, she said.

 
Kris Baker wrote:
> "camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1165554020.534000.71050@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Kris Baker wrote:
> >> "camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> news:1165551723.163427.93920@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> > Kris Baker wrote:
> >> >> (alt.true-crime added)
> >> >>
> >> >> "Dustbunny" <whognu@earthlinc.net> wrote in message
> >> >> news:bg3eh.7884$tM1.5102@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
> >> >> > I live in Portland and this story has been all over the local news
> >> >> > here --
> >> >> > obviously -- anyhoo, the Oregonian said that "official" maps issued
> >> >> > by
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > OR Dept. of Transportation have a warning not to take that road in
> >> >> > winter.
> >> >> > They didn't know which map the Kims used though -- apparently Rand
> >> >> > McNally
> >> >> > maps don't have the same warning.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Evelyn
> >> >>
> >> >> I've got Rand McNally right in front of me.
> >> >>
> >> >> The road *is* shown on the Oregon two-pager as a
> >> >> light gray line that means "Other roads". There's a
> >> >> note to go to Page 1 for more info on the symbols.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you go to Page 1:(actually it's about the 8th page in),
> >> >> it says:
> >> >> "Other roads (conditions vary - local inquiry suggested)."
> >> >>
> >> >> In other words, someone travelling in the dark who sees
> >> >> the road on the map, might just take it without
> >> >> investigating the entire scope of the road map.
> >> >>
> >> >> R-M also shows it as a scenic route. There's no warning
> >> >> about "closed in winter", only that it goes through the
> >> >> Wild Rogue Wilderness Area.
> >> >>
> >> >> I've been wondering how far they were past their
> >> >> turn-off to the good road (Hwy 42, I suspect), that made
> >> >> this pig-in-a-poke look like the best choice late at night.
> >> >> From the Glendale turnoff, it's about 60 miles north to
> >> >> the Hwy 42 turnoff.
> >> >>
> >> >> Kris
> >> >
> >> > Hmmm, Kris, good detective work. Yeah, when they have some sort of
> >> > asterisk with the explanation on another page (or even in small print
> >> > at tthe bottom of the page) that isn't something people always see.
> >> >
> >> > But remember, the guy that rescued them said that logging road is wider
> >> > than Bear Gulch. So it probably didn't look that puny, at least when
> >> > they first got on it.
> >>
> >> The dead-end road they turned onto after travelling several miles,
> >> was the road that was wider.
> >>
> >> NF-23 is a paved one-laner, with gravel at the very top (highest
> >> part), according to what I can find and that's apparently the one
> >> I'm seeing on the map.
> >>
> >> Kris
> >
> > Right, my mistake. I'm getting confused with all these roads. :-)
>
> I wish they'd just call them by the numbers, instead of the names.
>
> Kris

Here is the article with Kati's version of events:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/07/BAGLKMRFBK7.DTL

 
"avery" <doomella@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Uk0eh.52113$Fw5.26272@news-wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com...
>
> "Kris Baker" <kris.baker@prodigyyyy.net> wrote in message
> news:j00eh.5326$hI.2799@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>> "camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:1165523745.286585.143720@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> Trey Harlow wrote:
>>>> >
>>>
>>> While this is true most of the time, I actually think the public
>>> dictacted the media response on this one. It just grabbed people in a
>>> visceral way. For reasons unknown, I felt like I knew him. Obviously
>>> you and others were immune, but I, for one, was not led by the nose by
>>> the media.
>>
>> Isn't it funny how those who claim to be immune, are the ones
>> who jump in with venom towards the victim(s)? "I don't let
>> the news media tell me which deaths are imortant" while
>> meanwhile showing us his visceral reaction to something he
>> obviously wanted to read ;)
>
>
> You know, this may sound unforgivably corny and all but there's something
> nice about the fact that a story like this can still strike a chord (and
> I'm not referring to the venomous responders -- that's a whole other ball
> of wax) with so many people in today's "jaded" age. There were no drugs
> involved, no vicious murder, no sleazy crime, no drug intrigue, no
> complicated sexual twist, no affairs, no baby on the way, just a real
> family tragedy that instills nothing but a pure, heartfelt, almost
> old-fashioned kind of sadness.
===============

yes boyz n girlz underneath that jaded crusty
facade beats a real doomie heart just as trite
and predictable as a Frank Capra movie
and twice as schmaltzy !!!

btw Kim shooda stayed in the car
let that be a lesson to y'all STAY in the car !

 
"camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1165554344.145541.86040@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
> Kris Baker wrote:
>> "LidsvilleNine" <LidsvilleNine@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:1165551514.667729.72740@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Kris Baker wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Oh. My. God.
>> >>
>> >> You're mostly right about it. If you look at it quickly OR if you
>> >> printed
>> >> the map on "color saving", you'd think that's the road to follow.
>> >> It's
>> >> not. That dull-blue color is the Rogue River, but the B&B site
>> >> sure as hell makes it look like the road they ended up taking.
>> >
>> > That's quite plausible. Some very intelligent people just aren't great
>> > with maps, and that map isn't too great.
>>
>> So we now have two maps that could have easily led them astray.
>> Sheesh. I wonder if they missed the warning signs, because
>> of the heavy snow?
>>
>> Kris
>
> No, they didn't. This is based on the same article I read. They got on
> the road and then I guess fairly soon saw these warnings signs. She
> says they saw warning signs and then it started snowing really hard.
> Not sure of the actual step by step here.
>
> They tried to turn around (which is how they got stuck). They had to
> get out in the snow and get the car turned around, which they did do
> and then they drove back a little ways in the direction they had come,
> but then stopped when they hit a fork in the road thinking they could
> be found there. They were running out of gas from all the maneuvers
> trying to turn around, she said.

Wasn't one of the warning signs supposedly right when they got
on NF-23, at Merlin? That's when they should have turned
around.

It's looking like "lack of gas" may have been their biggest problem,
because they could have driven out later or set a bigger fire.

Kris

subscriber1997 wrote:
>
> "avery" <doomella@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Uk0eh.52113$Fw5.26272@news-wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com...
> >
> > "Kris Baker" <kris.baker@prodigyyyy.net> wrote in message
> > news:j00eh.5326$hI.2799@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
> >>
> >> "camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> news:1165523745.286585.143720@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> >>>
> >>> Trey Harlow wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>
> >>> While this is true most of the time, I actually think the public
> >>> dictacted the media response on this one. It just grabbed people in a
> >>> visceral way. For reasons unknown, I felt like I knew him. Obviously
> >>> you and others were immune, but I, for one, was not led by the nose by
> >>> the media.
> >>
> >> Isn't it funny how those who claim to be immune, are the ones
> >> who jump in with venom towards the victim(s)? "I don't let
> >> the news media tell me which deaths are imortant" while
> >> meanwhile showing us his visceral reaction to something he
> >> obviously wanted to read ;)
> >
> >
> > You know, this may sound unforgivably corny and all but there's something
> > nice about the fact that a story like this can still strike a chord (and
> > I'm not referring to the venomous responders -- that's a whole other ball
> > of wax) with so many people in today's "jaded" age. There were no drugs
> > involved, no vicious murder, no sleazy crime, no drug intrigue, no
> > complicated sexual twist, no affairs, no baby on the way, just a real
> > family tragedy that instills nothing but a pure, heartfelt, almost
> > old-fashioned kind of sadness.
> ===============
>
> yes boyz n girlz underneath that jaded crusty
> facade beats a real doomie heart just as trite
> and predictable as a Frank Capra movie
> and twice as schmaltzy !!!
>
> btw Kim shooda stayed in the car
> let that be a lesson to y'all STAY in the car !

Sometimes, you die when you stay with the car --

 
Like I said before,

Never let your tank get below half a tank when traveling with children



camille wrote:
> Kris Baker wrote:
> > "LidsvilleNine" <LidsvilleNine@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:1165551514.667729.72740@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > Kris Baker wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Oh. My. God.
> > >>
> > >> You're mostly right about it. If you look at it quickly OR if you
> > >> printed
> > >> the map on "color saving", you'd think that's the road to follow. It's
> > >> not. That dull-blue color is the Rogue River, but the B&B site
> > >> sure as hell makes it look like the road they ended up taking.
> > >
> > > That's quite plausible. Some very intelligent people just aren't great
> > > with maps, and that map isn't too great.
> >
> > So we now have two maps that could have easily led them astray.
> > Sheesh. I wonder if they missed the warning signs, because
> > of the heavy snow?
> >
> > Kris
>
> No, they didn't. This is based on the same article I read. They got on
> the road and then I guess fairly soon saw these warnings signs. She
> says they saw warning signs and then it started snowing really hard.
> Not sure of the actual step by step here.
>
> They tried to turn around (which is how they got stuck). They had to
> get out in the snow and get the car turned around, which they did do
> and then they drove back a little ways in the direction they had come,
> but then stopped when they hit a fork in the road thinking they could
> be found there. They were running out of gas from all the maneuvers
> trying to turn around, she said.

 
"theresa" <emilyd1O@yoodoo.com> wrote in message
news:4579A93B.4CED7622@yoodoo.com...
> subscriber1997 wrote:
>>
>> "avery" <doomella@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Uk0eh.52113$Fw5.26272@news-wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com...
>> >
>> > "Kris Baker" <kris.baker@prodigyyyy.net> wrote in message
>> > news:j00eh.5326$hI.2799@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
>> >>
>> >> "camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:1165523745.286585.143720@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>> >>>
>> >>> Trey Harlow wrote:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> While this is true most of the time, I actually think the public
>> >>> dictacted the media response on this one. It just grabbed people in
>> >>> a
>> >>> visceral way. For reasons unknown, I felt like I knew him.
>> >>> Obviously
>> >>> you and others were immune, but I, for one, was not led by the nose
>> >>> by
>> >>> the media.
>> >>
>> >> Isn't it funny how those who claim to be immune, are the ones
>> >> who jump in with venom towards the victim(s)? "I don't let
>> >> the news media tell me which deaths are imortant" while
>> >> meanwhile showing us his visceral reaction to something he
>> >> obviously wanted to read ;)
>> >
>> >
>> > You know, this may sound unforgivably corny and all but there's
>> > something
>> > nice about the fact that a story like this can still strike a chord
>> > (and
>> > I'm not referring to the venomous responders -- that's a whole other
>> > ball
>> > of wax) with so many people in today's "jaded" age. There were no drugs
>> > involved, no vicious murder, no sleazy crime, no drug intrigue, no
>> > complicated sexual twist, no affairs, no baby on the way, just a real
>> > family tragedy that instills nothing but a pure, heartfelt, almost
>> > old-fashioned kind of sadness.
>> ===============
>>
>> yes boyz n girlz underneath that jaded crusty
>> facade beats a real doomie heart just as trite
>> and predictable as a Frank Capra movie
>> and twice as schmaltzy !!!
>>
>> btw Kim shooda stayed in the car
>> let that be a lesson to y'all STAY in the car !
>
> Sometimes, you die when you stay with the car --

True, but you have to understand that we all suddenly become grizzled
veterans on wilderness/rescue matters, not having been in the car and all
but having read the reports and seen the outcome. Kind of like when, after
9/11, we all suddenly became honorary industrial engineers ,intimately
acquainted with the physics of reinforced-skyscraper collapse patterns, the
melting point of steel, the explosive dynamics of jet-fuel combustion, and
an insider's eye view of the various conspiracy theories being hatched to
misled everybody else.

  A timeline of the Kim family's trip and the search for them.

At a Thursday press conference, Lt. Gregg Hastings of the Oregon State
Police shared details provided by Kati Kim of how the family became
stranded and what searchers learned about the final days of James Kim’s
life.

Friday, Nov. 17: The Kim family departs San Francisco in family car for
Seattle.

Friday, Nov. 24: The Kims leave Seattle for Portland.

Saturday, Nov. 25: The Kims leave Portland for the Tu Tu Tun Lodge in
Gold Beach. They are last seen eating dinner at a Denny’s in Roseburg,
leaving around 9 pm to drive through the mountains to the coast.

The Kims miss their intended turnoff. At about 10:30 pm, they instead
turn west onto Bear Camp Road. Kati Kim describes the road as
“confusing.” They see signs warning of possible snow ahead. It begins
snowing.

The Kims decide to turn back but the road is difficult to follow. Kati
Kim describes snow falling hard as James drives the car in reverse back
down the road with his driver door open so he can see where he’s going.

At some point, the family winds up on a road that forks off Bear Camp
Road. They continue about 15 more miles before they stop for the night.
It is now about 2 a.m.

Computer records show one of the Kims' cell phones receiving two text
messages around 1:30 a.m.

Sunday, November 26: Snow and rain fall throughout the day. The Kims
stay in their car, turning the engine at times on for warmth.

Monday, November 27: Snow continues, falling heavily at times. Again,
the Kims stay in the car, running the engine briefly for warmth but they
are low on fuel.

Tuesday, November 28: More snow and rain.

Wednesday, November 29: The weather starts to clear.

Thursday, November 30: The Kims take their spare tire and set it on fire
for warmth.

Friday, December 1: The Kims burn all four remaining tires. Kati Kim
reports hearing a helicopter nearby.

Saturday, December 2: James Kim makes a fateful decision to hike out to
get help. He believes, wrongly, that he is only five miles from the town
of Galice. In fact, he is about 15 miles away. He sets out with a
packpack and extra clothes at 7:40 a.m., telling Kati he expects to be
back by 1 p.m. He builds a fire for his wife and children before he
leaves. It is the last time Kati will see her husband alive.

Monday, Dec. 4: At about 1:45 p.m., a helicopter spots Kati Kim and her
two children near the family car. The mother and two girls are rescued
safely.

Tuesday, Dec. 5: Search and rescue personnel find clothes identified as
those of James Kim, arranged in a pattern that may have been intended to
give searchers clues to his whereabouts.

Wednesday, Dec. 6: Shortly after 12 p.m., the body of James Kim is found
at the bottom of Big Windy Creek, half a mile from the Rogue River. He
is found face up, fully clothed, in one to two feet of water.

Searchers conclude that a “highly motivated” James traveled 10 miles in
blue jeans and sneakers over rugged terrain before succumbing to
exposure and hypothermia.

Godof7s@yahoo.com wrote:
> Like I said before,
>
> Never let your tank get below half a tank when traveling with children
>
>
>
> camille wrote:
>
>>Kris Baker wrote:
>>
>>>"LidsvilleNine" <LidsvilleNine@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>news:1165551514.667729.72740@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>>Kris Baker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Oh. My. God.
>>>>>
>>>>>You're mostly right about it. If you look at it quickly OR if you
>>>>>printed
>>>>>the map on "color saving", you'd think that's the road to follow. It's
>>>>>not. That dull-blue color is the Rogue River, but the B&B site
>>>>>sure as hell makes it look like the road they ended up taking.
>>>>
>>>>That's quite plausible. Some very intelligent people just aren't great
>>>>with maps, and that map isn't too great.
>>>
>>>So we now have two maps that could have easily led them astray.
>>>Sheesh. I wonder if they missed the warning signs, because
>>>of the heavy snow?
>>>
>>>Kris
>>
>>No, they didn't. This is based on the same article I read. They got on
>>the road and then I guess fairly soon saw these warnings signs. She
>>says they saw warning signs and then it started snowing really hard.
>>Not sure of the actual step by step here.
>>
>>They tried to turn around (which is how they got stuck). They had to
>>get out in the snow and get the car turned around, which they did do
>>and then they drove back a little ways in the direction they had come,
>>but then stopped when they hit a fork in the road thinking they could
>>be found there. They were running out of gas from all the maneuvers
>>trying to turn around, she said.
>
>

 
subscriber1997 wrote:
> "avery" <doomella@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Uk0eh.52113$Fw5.26272@news-wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com...
> >
> > "Kris Baker" <kris.baker@prodigyyyy.net> wrote in message
> > news:j00eh.5326$hI.2799@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
> >>
> >> "camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> news:1165523745.286585.143720@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> >>>
> >>> Trey Harlow wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>
> >>> While this is true most of the time, I actually think the public
> >>> dictacted the media response on this one. It just grabbed people in a
> >>> visceral way. For reasons unknown, I felt like I knew him. Obviously
> >>> you and others were immune, but I, for one, was not led by the nose by
> >>> the media.
> >>
> >> Isn't it funny how those who claim to be immune, are the ones
> >> who jump in with venom towards the victim(s)? "I don't let
> >> the news media tell me which deaths are imortant" while
> >> meanwhile showing us his visceral reaction to something he
> >> obviously wanted to read ;)
> >
> >
> > You know, this may sound unforgivably corny and all but there's something
> > nice about the fact that a story like this can still strike a chord (and
> > I'm not referring to the venomous responders -- that's a whole other ball
> > of wax) with so many people in today's "jaded" age. There were no drugs
> > involved, no vicious murder, no sleazy crime, no drug intrigue, no
> > complicated sexual twist, no affairs, no baby on the way, just a real
> > family tragedy that instills nothing but a pure, heartfelt, almost
> > old-fashioned kind of sadness.
> ===============
>
> yes boyz n girlz underneath that jaded crusty
> facade beats a real doomie heart just as trite
> and predictable as a Frank Capra movie
> and twice as schmaltzy !!!
>
> btw Kim shooda stayed in the car
> let that be a lesson to y'all STAY in the car !

<<btw Kim shooda stayed in the car
let that be a lesson to y'all STAY in the car ! >>


Not necessarily. Aritcle in paper this week: same road the Kims were
on, several years back. A guy got stranded, stayed in his car. They
found his body in the spring (still in the car).

Also in March of this year, same road again, people stranded were saved
after they hiked out. Oregon had no helicopters to search for them,
merely those sno-plow machines.

BTW, the guy who stayed in the car? At the time, a lot of talk that he
should have left the car. It's a crapshoot. You win, you did the
right thing, you lose, you did the wrong thing.

 
"camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1165612474.689848.57150@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> subscriber1997 wrote:
>> "avery" <doomella@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Uk0eh.52113$Fw5.26272@news-wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com...
>> >
>> > "Kris Baker" <kris.baker@prodigyyyy.net> wrote in message
>> > news:j00eh.5326$hI.2799@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
>> >>
>> >> "camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:1165523745.286585.143720@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>> >>>
>> >>> Trey Harlow wrote:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> While this is true most of the time, I actually think the public
>> >>> dictacted the media response on this one. It just grabbed people in
>> >>> a
>> >>> visceral way. For reasons unknown, I felt like I knew him.
>> >>> Obviously
>> >>> you and others were immune, but I, for one, was not led by the nose
>> >>> by
>> >>> the media.
>> >>
>> >> Isn't it funny how those who claim to be immune, are the ones
>> >> who jump in with venom towards the victim(s)? "I don't let
>> >> the news media tell me which deaths are imortant" while
>> >> meanwhile showing us his visceral reaction to something he
>> >> obviously wanted to read ;)
>> >
>> >
>> > You know, this may sound unforgivably corny and all but there's
>> > something
>> > nice about the fact that a story like this can still strike a chord
>> > (and
>> > I'm not referring to the venomous responders -- that's a whole other
>> > ball
>> > of wax) with so many people in today's "jaded" age. There were no drugs
>> > involved, no vicious murder, no sleazy crime, no drug intrigue, no
>> > complicated sexual twist, no affairs, no baby on the way, just a real
>> > family tragedy that instills nothing but a pure, heartfelt, almost
>> > old-fashioned kind of sadness.
>> ===============
>>
>> yes boyz n girlz underneath that jaded crusty
>> facade beats a real doomie heart just as trite
>> and predictable as a Frank Capra movie
>> and twice as schmaltzy !!!
>>
>> btw Kim shooda stayed in the car
>> let that be a lesson to y'all STAY in the car !
>
> <<btw Kim shooda stayed in the car
> let that be a lesson to y'all STAY in the car ! >>
>
>
> Not necessarily. Aritcle in paper this week: same road the Kims were
> on, several years back. A guy got stranded, stayed in his car. They
> found his body in the spring (still in the car).
>
> Also in March of this year, same road again, people stranded were saved
> after they hiked out. Oregon had no helicopters to search for them,
> merely those sno-plow machines.
>
> BTW, the guy who stayed in the car? At the time, a lot of talk that he
> should have left the car. It's a crapshoot. You win, you did the
> right thing, you lose, you did the wrong thing.

That's right. And I agree that this is the kind of human story that
we could *all* find ourselves in (including the "I'm above that!" types
in this thread). We could be on that road in the summer, and
get hit by a rockslide, drive or slide off an embankment, etc.
The road was on the map, without warnings. The Tu Tu Tun
website directions have that curious map image that *looks* like
a road (but is the river).

The thing that really did them in, was that they were running low
on gas. Otherwise, they could have driven themselves out
in a couple of days.

Kris

 

Kris Baker wrote:

> "camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1165612474.689848.57150@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>subscriber1997 wrote:
>>
>>>"avery" <doomella@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:Uk0eh.52113$Fw5.26272@news-wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com...
>>>
>>>>"Kris Baker" <kris.baker@prodigyyyy.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:j00eh.5326$hI.2799@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
>>>>
>>>>>"camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:1165523745.286585.143720@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>>Trey Harlow wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>While this is true most of the time, I actually think the public
>>>>>>dictacted the media response on this one. It just grabbed people in
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>visceral way. For reasons unknown, I felt like I knew him.
>>>>>>Obviously
>>>>>>you and others were immune, but I, for one, was not led by the nose
>>>>>>by
>>>>>>the media.
>>>>>
>>>>>Isn't it funny how those who claim to be immune, are the ones
>>>>>who jump in with venom towards the victim(s)? "I don't let
>>>>>the news media tell me which deaths are imortant" while
>>>>>meanwhile showing us his visceral reaction to something he
>>>>>obviously wanted to read ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You know, this may sound unforgivably corny and all but there's
>>>>something
>>>>nice about the fact that a story like this can still strike a chord
>>>>(and
>>>>I'm not referring to the venomous responders -- that's a whole other
>>>>ball
>>>>of wax) with so many people in today's "jaded" age. There were no drugs
>>>>involved, no vicious murder, no sleazy crime, no drug intrigue, no
>>>>complicated sexual twist, no affairs, no baby on the way, just a real
>>>>family tragedy that instills nothing but a pure, heartfelt, almost
>>>>old-fashioned kind of sadness.
>>>
>>>===============
>>>
>>>yes boyz n girlz underneath that jaded crusty
>>>facade beats a real doomie heart just as trite
>>>and predictable as a Frank Capra movie
>>>and twice as schmaltzy !!!
>>>
>>>btw Kim shooda stayed in the car
>>>let that be a lesson to y'all STAY in the car !
>>
>><<btw Kim shooda stayed in the car
>>let that be a lesson to y'all STAY in the car ! >>
>>
>>
>>Not necessarily. Aritcle in paper this week: same road the Kims were
>>on, several years back. A guy got stranded, stayed in his car. They
>>found his body in the spring (still in the car).
>>
>>Also in March of this year, same road again, people stranded were saved
>>after they hiked out. Oregon had no helicopters to search for them,
>>merely those sno-plow machines.
>>
>>BTW, the guy who stayed in the car? At the time, a lot of talk that he
>>should have left the car. It's a crapshoot. You win, you did the
>>right thing, you lose, you did the wrong thing.
>
>
> That's right. And I agree that this is the kind of human story that
> we could *all* find ourselves in (including the "I'm above that!" types
> in this thread). We could be on that road in the summer, and
> get hit by a rockslide, drive or slide off an embankment, etc.
> The road was on the map, without warnings. The Tu Tu Tun
> website directions have that curious map image that *looks* like
> a road (but is the river).
>
> The thing that really did them in, was that they were running low
> on gas. Otherwise, they could have driven themselves out
> in a couple of days.
>
> Kris
>

#1 You don't drive up an unfamiliar road into the mountains like that
in the middle of the night when the forecasters had been predicting a
major winter storm hitting that night for a couple of days. The major
roads themselves across the passes can get pretty harry during a winter
storm.

#2 Always leave the valley with a full tank of gas.

> Not necessarily. Aritcle in paper this week: same road the Kims were
> on, several years back. A guy got stranded, stayed in his car. They
> found his body in the spring (still in the car).
>
> Also in March of this year, same road again, people stranded were saved
> after they hiked out. Oregon had no helicopters to search for them,
> merely those sno-plow machines.

Hey, we have helicopters here in Oregon! And running water too : P
I believe the county where the road is located owns only 1 helicopter tho...

Evelyn

 
Coop wrote:
> Kris Baker wrote:
>
> > "camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:1165612474.689848.57150@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >>subscriber1997 wrote:
> >>
> >>>"avery" <doomella@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:Uk0eh.52113$Fw5.26272@news-wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com...
> >>>
> >>>>"Kris Baker" <kris.baker@prodigyyyy.net> wrote in message
> >>>>news:j00eh.5326$hI.2799@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
> >>>>
> >>>>>"camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:1165523745.286585.143720@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Trey Harlow wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>While this is true most of the time, I actually think the public
> >>>>>>dictacted the media response on this one. It just grabbed people in
> >>>>>>a
> >>>>>>visceral way. For reasons unknown, I felt like I knew him.
> >>>>>>Obviously
> >>>>>>you and others were immune, but I, for one, was not led by the nose
> >>>>>>by
> >>>>>>the media.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Isn't it funny how those who claim to be immune, are the ones
> >>>>>who jump in with venom towards the victim(s)? "I don't let
> >>>>>the news media tell me which deaths are imortant" while
> >>>>>meanwhile showing us his visceral reaction to something he
> >>>>>obviously wanted to read ;)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>You know, this may sound unforgivably corny and all but there's
> >>>>something
> >>>>nice about the fact that a story like this can still strike a chord
> >>>>(and
> >>>>I'm not referring to the venomous responders -- that's a whole other
> >>>>ball
> >>>>of wax) with so many people in today's "jaded" age. There were no drugs
> >>>>involved, no vicious murder, no sleazy crime, no drug intrigue, no
> >>>>complicated sexual twist, no affairs, no baby on the way, just a real
> >>>>family tragedy that instills nothing but a pure, heartfelt, almost
> >>>>old-fashioned kind of sadness.
> >>>
> >>>===============
> >>>
> >>>yes boyz n girlz underneath that jaded crusty
> >>>facade beats a real doomie heart just as trite
> >>>and predictable as a Frank Capra movie
> >>>and twice as schmaltzy !!!
> >>>
> >>>btw Kim shooda stayed in the car
> >>>let that be a lesson to y'all STAY in the car !
> >>
> >><<btw Kim shooda stayed in the car
> >>let that be a lesson to y'all STAY in the car ! >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Not necessarily. Aritcle in paper this week: same road the Kims were
> >>on, several years back. A guy got stranded, stayed in his car. They
> >>found his body in the spring (still in the car).
> >>
> >>Also in March of this year, same road again, people stranded were saved
> >>after they hiked out. Oregon had no helicopters to search for them,
> >>merely those sno-plow machines.
> >>
> >>BTW, the guy who stayed in the car? At the time, a lot of talk that he
> >>should have left the car. It's a crapshoot. You win, you did the
> >>right thing, you lose, you did the wrong thing.
> >
> >
> > That's right. And I agree that this is the kind of human story that
> > we could *all* find ourselves in (including the "I'm above that!" types
> > in this thread). We could be on that road in the summer, and
> > get hit by a rockslide, drive or slide off an embankment, etc.
> > The road was on the map, without warnings. The Tu Tu Tun
> > website directions have that curious map image that *looks* like
> > a road (but is the river).
> >
> > The thing that really did them in, was that they were running low
> > on gas. Otherwise, they could have driven themselves out
> > in a couple of days.
> >
> > Kris
> >
>
> #1 You don't drive up an unfamiliar road into the mountains like that
> in the middle of the night when the forecasters had been predicting a
> major winter storm hitting that night for a couple of days. The major
> roads themselves across the passes can get pretty harry during a winter
> storm.
>
> #2 Always leave the valley with a full tank of gas.

Again, it could happen to ALL of us.

 
"camille" <linking@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1165627811.917520.198890@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Again, it could happen to ALL of us.
>

That's right. If they'd had a full tank of gas, they could have
had a leak. If they'd not taken Hwy 23, a big semi may have
crossed I-5 and hit them head-on. If they'd stayed in Roseburg,
they may have been in the path of a bad storm on a freeway
full of anxious travelers.

Sometimes, it's your time.

Kris